BILLIONS

On this episode of BILLIONS, I’m sitting down with a legendary architect of the SaaS world: Jason Cohen, founder of WP Engine and Smart Bear.Jason has "cracked the code" twice, using two diametrically opposite strategies:The Pure Bootstrap: He built Smart Bear to millions in profit with zero outside funding, eventually leading to a unicorn valuation.The VC War Machine: He raised $250 million from Silver Lake for WP Engine, scaling it to $400M in revenue and 200,000 customers by 2024.This is a masterclass in capital efficiency. Whether you are a solo-founder or a venture-backed CEO, Jason’s framework for building "enduring companies" is the raw truth you won't hear in most boardrooms.TIMELINE : 00:00 - Why AI products almost never work01:20 - Switching from Bootstrapping to $250M VC rounds04:51 - The SaaS-pocalypse: The truth behind HubSpot & legacy decline09:30 - Solving legacy problems with AI-powered search16:17 - Experts vs. Muggles: The three categories of AI products21:55 - Why evergreen insights beat AI hype26:06 - The Power Move: Firing yourself as CEO to save the company34:01 - The "301 Redirect" strategy for management transitions40:48 - Hidden multipliers and the labor of love44:02 - The Raw Truth: Post-exit depression and infinite optionality58:25 - Redefining identity: Leveraging accumulated wisdomREFERENCES :

Lazar Jovanovic is the world's first official "Vibe Coding Engineer." Working at Lovable (the AI startup that hit $100M ARR in just 8 months) Lazar is proving that the future of software engineering isn't about syntax; it's about taste and intent.In this episode, we dive into how Lazar ships production-grade apps for a $6.6B unicorn without writing a single line of manual code. We discuss the "SaaS-pocalypse," why ignorance is a superpower in the AI era, and how you can transition from a traditional role to a Vibe Coder.TIMELINE : 00:00 - Meet the world's first "vibe coding" engineer01:06 - Why "not knowing how to code" is your new superpower04:43 - Is software maintenance dead in the age of AI?09:15 - The Lovable story: hitting $100M ARR in 8 months15:42 - The end of bootstrapping? Vibe coding vs. the old way24:16 - SaaS-pocalypse: the future of software interfaces29:47 - Beyond code: the only metrics that matter for AI products37:01 - Will enterprises ever adopt AI-generated code?44:35 - The "Aladdin & Genie" trick for mastering AI prompts56:05 - How to become a vibe coder (no permission required)REFERENCES :
Warren Mason

Kurt Cobain 

Pieter Levels.

Marc Lou

Victor Wembanyama 

Elena Verna

Jony Ive

Lovable 

Claude 

OpenAI

Shopify 

Stripe 

TechCrunch 

Salesforce 

HubSpot 

28 Days of Lovable

She Builds

Aladdin and the Genie

Today on BILLIONS, I'm sitting down with Des Traynor, co-founder of Intercom.
In 2023, his company was stuck at 10% growth. Customer service teams were shrinking. The old model was dying.
So he did something radical: he launched an AI agent priced at $0.99 per resolved conversation. Not per seat. Per outcome.
The result? Growth doubled to 25%. $343M in revenue.
And a complete reinvention of a $1.3B company in 18 months.

TIMELINE :
00:00:00 - 00:01:02 : Des Traynor - Intercom
00:01:02 - 00:05:22 : The $1.3 billion bet on AI : moving 15 days after ChatGPT launched
00:05:22 - 00:09:08 : Why building AI is not building SaaS
00:09:08 - 00:12:51 : The "torture test" for engineering reliability
00:12:51 - 00:20:14 : Developing the "white smoke" moment for product
00:20:14 - 00:25:16 : Defining what "good" looks like in AI
00:25:16 - 00:34:53 : The Blockbuster warning: Adapt or die
00:34:53 - 00:40:27 : Killing hallucinations with actor-critic logic
00:40:27 - 00:48:55 : Outcome-based pricing and the future of CRM
00:48:55 - 00:55:56 : The end of frontline customer service jobs
REFERENCES :
⁠Fergal Reid⁠ 

⁠Ciarán Lee⁠ 

⁠Eoghan McCabe⁠

⁠Marc Andreessen⁠ 

⁠If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies⁠

⁠OpenAI / ChatGPT⁠

⁠Zendesk⁠

⁠Salesforce⁠ 

⁠Fin.AI⁠

⁠Gong⁠ 

⁠ClickUp⁠

⁠DALL-E⁠

⁠Cursor⁠ 

⁠Windsurf⁠

⁠Devin⁠

⁠Claude Code⁠

⁠Attio⁠

⁠Clarify⁠

⁠Netflix⁠

⁠The Cheeky Pint

Today on BILLIONS, I'm sitting down with Des Traynor, co-founder of Intercom.
In 2023, his company was stuck at 10% growth. Customer service teams were shrinking. The old model was dying.
So he did something radical: he launched an AI agent priced at $0.99 per resolved conversation. Not per seat. Per outcome.
The result? Growth doubled to 25%. $343M in revenue.
And a complete reinvention of a $1.3B company in 18 months.

TIMELINE :
00:00:00 - 00:01:02 : Des Traynor - Intercom
00:01:02 - 00:05:22 : The $1.3 billion bet on AI : moving 15 days after ChatGPT launched
00:05:22 - 00:09:08 : Why building AI is not building SaaS
00:09:08 - 00:12:51 : The "torture test" for engineering reliability
00:12:51 - 00:20:14 : Developing the "white smoke" moment for product
00:20:14 - 00:25:16 : Defining what "good" looks like in AI
00:25:16 - 00:34:53 : The Blockbuster warning: Adapt or die
00:34:53 - 00:40:27 : Killing hallucinations with actor-critic logic
00:40:27 - 00:48:55 : Outcome-based pricing and the future of CRM
00:48:55 - 00:55:56 : The end of frontline customer service jobs
REFERENCES :
Fergal Reid 

Ciarán Lee 

Eoghan McCabe

Marc Andreessen 

If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies

OpenAI / ChatGPT

Zendesk

Salesforce 

Fin.AI

Gong 

ClickUp

DALL-E

Cursor 

Windsurf

Devin

Claude Code

Attio

Clarify

Netflix

The Cheeky Pint

Today on BILLIONS, I'm sitting down with Wilfried Juncker.
He's the Managing Director for Odoo's Americas a Belgian software unicorn that just hit a €8 billion valuation.
Under Wilfried's watch, Odoo's Americas operation exploded from 35 people in 2016 to over 950 in America only.
In this episode, we're digging into how Wilfried built Odoo's American war machine, what it takes to conquer a new market from scratch, and how he's fighting high SMB churn while scaling at breakneck speed.
While SAP and Oracle charge millions for ERP, Odoo's open-source model is democratizing enterprise software and Wilfried built the Americas war machine that's making it happen.
Wilfried, thanks a lot for being here!

TIMELINE :
00:00:00 - 00:01:05 : Odoo's explosive growth from 70 to 2,000 employees
00:01:05 - 00:02:30 : The early days and Wilfried's journey at Odoo
00:02:30 - 00:05:25 : Entering the US market with channel partners strategy
00:05:25 - 00:09:25 : Open source model and freemium conversion tactics
00:09:25 - 00:14:20 : Building the partner ecosystem and revenue sharing
00:14:20 - 00:18:07 : Scaling partner relationships and management approach
00:18:07 - 00:24:12 : Hiring and retention philosophy - promote from within only
00:24:12 - 00:27:14 : Industry specialization vs size-based team structure
00:27:14 - 00:34:32 : Managing SMB churn while maintaining growth
00:34:32 - 00:42:17 : Demo-first culture and bottom-up sales approach
00:42:17 - 00:48:20 : Resource allocation and offline marketing strategy
00:48:20 - 00:52:27 : Unconventional customer acquisition tactics
00:52:27 - 00:54:29 : Building local ecosystems and final thoughts

REFERENCES :
- Oracle NetSuite
- Microsoft Dynamics
- SAP
- Acumatica
- Sage
- Epicor
- Infor
- QuickBooks
- HubSpot
- GitHub
- Lemlist
- Clay
- Lucia
- NPR
- NASA