Creator Science with Jay Clouse

This week, my wife Mallory joins me for only her second podcast appearance ever to break down everything from The Lab Offline Powered by Circle — our second annual 2-day in-person retreat for Lab members, hosted June 8–9 at Hotel Renegade in Boise, Idaho. Mallory planned essentially everything: seating charts, venue contracts, menus, swag, run of show. She's been at it for roughly 6 months.

In this episode, we talk about:

The full economics of running a community retreat (we lost $8,300, which is actually an improvement)

How we took breakfast from a 4.8 to an 8.1 rating — and what we'd cut to reduce costs next year

What ranked #1 for attendees 2 years running, and why trivia (our favorite activity) came in 7th

Whether we'll keep doing this in Boise — and what Columbus, Toronto, and doing 2 events per year might look like

By the end of this episode, you will have a clear picture of what it actually costs to run a high-quality community event, what's worth paying for, and what we'd do differently.

Circle (event sponsor)

Hotel Renegade Boise

Craft and Commerce Conference

The Lab

Full transcript and show notes

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TIMESTAMPS

(00:00) Cold open: people were moved, tears were shed

(00:53) The Lab Offline explained: 2-day member retreat, goals, and agenda

(06:44) Initial impressions: a reunion feeling, smoother logistics, zero fires

(13:08) Attendee feedback numbers: 9.3/10 overall, 91% returning, 34% said underpriced

(18:46) Event economics: $30,459 revenue, $38,800 costs, $8,300 loss

(23:05) Top cost drivers: hotel catering, travel, venue rental, dinners

(26:52) Planning challenges: acoustics, dietary restrictions, every decision is a trade-off

(36:52) What to keep: assigned seating, Kat's Immunity to Change workshop, Fighting Off the Sleepies

(42:04) What to improve: more mastermind sessions, less solo writing, better acoustics

(47:49) Open question: should the event stay paired with Craft and Commerce?

(53:49) The case for Columbus, 2 events per year, and an international option

***

RECOMMENDED NEXT EPISODE

#260: Detailed Breakdown: Our First Offline Event (And What We’ll Do Differently Next Time)

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🧪 Join The Lab (private membership community)

🧞 Get a Personalized Offer

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The highest month of membership revenue in Lab history was also the setup for the highest month of churn. One year later, February delivered both records.

I have been building community in some form since 2012. I ran Startup Weekend events in Columbus, led online Mastermind groups, consulted on the launch of SPI Pro, and spent 2021 leading the community team at Smart Passive Income before going back out on my own. In early 2022, I launched what became the Lab, a membership for creators earning at least $10,000 per month in non-service revenue or with 10,000 followers on a single platform. The Lab now has around 340 members across three tiers and is still standing after years of waves of communities coming and going.

In this episode, we talk about:

Why scarcity and urgency drive signups but can crater your retention a year later

The two onboarding "secrets" I kept quiet for a while

The mastermind paradox

How to think about scaling a community without accidentally eroding the culture you've built

What I would tell anyone thinking about launching a membership before they write a single line of copy

By the end of this episode, you will have a clearer picture of how a membership actually works over years, not just at launch.

Subscribe to Growth in Reverse

Watch on YouTube

The Lab Membership⁠

⁠The Lab Membership Teardown (free)⁠

⁠Circle (community platform)⁠

⁠Kit Craft and Commerce Conference⁠

⁠Chenell Basilio on Creator Science⁠⁠

Full transcript and show notes

***

TIMESTAMPS

(00:00) Introduction and episode context

(02:08) How Jay started the Lab (from Startup Weekend to SPI Pro to Creative Companion Club)

(09:37) The scarcity play: record revenue month followed by record churn

(10:38) What actually works as a marketing lever for a community

(13:46) Why Jay runs applications and has a 90% conversion rate for accepted members

(16:30) The design philosophy: reduce effort, increase impact

(24:19) Mid-boarding: the missing piece between onboarding and renewal

(35:13) Jay's onboarding framework and the two secrets he's been keeping

(40:46) Why offline events matter for retention (not necessarily growth)

(47:00) How to think about scaling community without destroying culture

(49:19) Who shouldn't launch a membership (and what to figure out first)

***

RECOMMENDED NEXT EPISODE

#292: Chenell Basilio — The state of email in 2026, growing your list without social media, and new predictions.

***

ASK CREATOR SCIENCE

Submit your question here

***

WHEN YOU'RE READY

Creator Science Newsletter

Get CreatorHQ (creator operating system)

Join The Lab (private membership community)

Get a Personalized Offer

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CONNECT

Connect on Twitter

Connect on Instagram

Connect on LinkedIn

Subscribe on YouTube

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Brad Hoos is the CEO of Outloud Group, one of the top influencer marketing agencies in the United States. His clients include AG1, Chomps, KitchenAid, and Whirlpool, and he’s managed campaigns across tens of thousands of creator partnerships. Jay found Brad while researching for his book proposal on trust, trying to track down the agency behind AG1’s dominance in podcast advertising.

In this episode, we talk about:

Why the creators who say no the most often are actually the most valuable to brands

The difference between brand voice and brand advocacy, and why getting this wrong kills campaigns

What Outloud learned running AG1’s campaigns across tens of thousands of creators

The data across 50,000 campaigns showing no meaningful correlation between CPM and performance

By the end of this episode, you will think differently about how brands choose creators and how creators should position themselves for long-term partnership success.

Outloud Group

Full transcript and show notes

***

TIMESTAMPS

(00:00) Introduction

(01:10) What brands actually want when they hire an agency

(06:20) The two things brands need to understand before a campaign starts

(07:09) Brand voice vs. brand advocacy: why the difference matters

(10:18) How trust changes what brands allow creators to do

(15:48) What running AG1’s campaigns taught Brad about influencer marketing

(20:39) How creators can position themselves to attract brand deals

(22:52) Why entertaining your audience beats being the “perfect” brand advocate

(27:24) Why the creators who say no most often perform best

(39:10) The data: no meaningful correlation between CPM and creator performance

(42:47) What Brad believes is true but can’t yet prove with data

(44:09) If you could only pick two platforms right now

***

RECOMMENDED NEXT EPISODE

#179: Justin Moore – A step-by-step strategy to get anyone sponsored, regardless of audience size

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ASK CREATOR SCIENCE

Submit your question here

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WHEN YOU’RE READY

💬 Creator Science Newsletter

🚀 Get CreatorHQ (creator operating system)

🧪 Join The Lab (private membership community)

🧞‍♂️ Get a Personalized Offer

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CONNECT

🐦 Connect on Twitter

📸 Connect on Instagram

💼 Connect on LinkedIn

📹 Subscribe on YouTube

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For the first time ever, I'm teaching my most popular course, Build A Beloved Membership, live over four weeks. You'll learn the exact approach I've taken to building The Lab to a ~$500K/year membership.

Here's what you'll get:

4 weeks live. 10 sessions taught by me (July 3 to August 3).

Kickoff call (Friday July 3) and Sendoff call (Monday August 3).

Recordings of every session.

A Circle space for homework, questions, and cohort chat.

A year of Lab Basic (member directory, questions answered, frameworks).

That last bullet is a big deal. Because after these four weeks are over, a year inside our Basic Membership (which typically costs $699/yr on its own) gives you monthly office hours with me for a year. So after the cohort, you aren't totally on your own again; you still have our community by your side.

→ Learn more and enroll​

I won't run this again in 2026. The timing just doesn't work with our next baby on the way—so I'll be going all out on THIS cohort. By the way, it’s going to be a hell of a lot of fun.

​Here's the full cohort page to learn more. We have more than 30 students enrolled already, and enrollment closes Wednesday, July 1 at 11:59pm ET.
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I brought back Becky Pierson Davidson to compare notes on where community is headed — and we found a few areas of disagreement. Becky works with 6, 7, and 8-figure businesses helping them build memberships and courses through design thinking and customer research, and she's seeing a major shift right now: course businesses are slowing down, and the smart ones are pivoting to membership models. The difference? Shared learning experiences are replacing self-paced education. Community is what people stay for.

We dig into the real mechanics: how to set expectations that don't feel like a bait-and-switch, why meaningful engagement isn't what most people think it is, the mastermind paradox (increases retention, decreases forum activity), and why in-person events might be the most important retention lever you're not using. Becky's hot take for 2026: content drops are dying. People don't need more stuff — they need connection and programming that moves them forward.

⁠Affinity Collective⁠

⁠Build with Becky podcast⁠

⁠Episode 197: Building Raving Fans (with Becky & Chanel)⁠

⁠Circle (community platform)⁠

⁠TightKnit (Slack archive plugin)⁠

⁠Dreamers and Doers⁠

⁠Full transcript and show notes⁠

***

TIMESTAMPS

(02:35) Defining community as a product, not a growth engine

(04:09) Why community is rising as a business model in 2026

(06:02) The reality of transitioning from courses to memberships

(08:01) Finding the right community design for your appetite

(10:02) How to avoid the bait-and-switch with member expectations

(13:06) Value perception vs. value experience

(13:57) The smallest viable promise for your sales page

(16:44) Where we disagree: transformation vs. community of practice

(21:14) Forum design: why fewer spaces wins

(23:17) Solving the engagement problem (what meaningful engagement actually is)

(25:50) How the best members actually use your community

(29:46) The mastermind paradox: retention up, forum participation down

(32:09) In-person experiences and the graduation weekend model

(36:39) The economics of offline events

(39:35) 2026 Hot Take: Content drops are dying

(43:07) Retention rethink: Did I get my money's worth vs. Will I next year?

(46:04) Why connection drives retention more than results

(48:23) Tool stack: Circle 9 times out of 10

(51:14) The future: personalization in community software

***

RECOMMENDED NEXT EPISODE

→ ⁠Episode 197: Building Raving Fans⁠

***

ASK CREATOR SCIENCE

→ ⁠Submit your question here⁠

***

WHEN YOU'RE READY

📬 ⁠Creator Science Newsletter⁠

🚀 ⁠Get CreatorHQ⁠ (creator operating system)

🧪 ⁠Join The Lab⁠ (private membership community)

🧞‍♂️ ⁠Get a Personalized Offer⁠

***

CONNECT

🐦 ⁠Connect on Twitter⁠

📸 ⁠Connect on Instagram⁠

💼 ⁠Connect on LinkedIn⁠

📹 ⁠Subscribe on YouTube⁠

***

SPONSORS

💼 ⁠View all sponsors
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices