Psychologists Off the Clock

What if the biggest threat to kids’ mental health isn’t smartphones or social media—but the loss of freedom, play, and independence in childhood?
In this episode of Psychologists Off the Clock, Emily welcomes researcher Peter Gray, author of Restoring Childhood: How to Set Kids Free in the Age of Anxiety. Drawing on decades of research in developmental psychology, anthropology, education, and play, Peter challenges some of our most common assumptions about what children need to thrive.
Peter explains why play isn’t simply recreation—it’s how children naturally learn independence, problem-solving, negotiation, courage, and the social skills they’ll need throughout their lives. He traces how adults have gradually “colonized” childhood, replacing independent play and exploration with increasingly adult-directed activities, supervision, and schoolwork.
Emily and Peter also take on one of today’s biggest parenting debates: the role of smartphones and social media in the youth mental health crisis. Peter offers a provocative interpretation of the historical data, including why teen mental health actually improved during the early years of home computers, video games, and online communication—and why he believes increased school pressure deserves far more attention as a contributor to youth anxiety and depression.
You’ll hear why children need opportunities to solve problems without adults swooping in, how risky play helps kids develop courage, why trust can become a self-fulfilling prophecy, and what parents and schools can do to give children more ownership over their lives.
Join Emily and Peter for a thought-provoking conversation about what we lose when we try too hard to protect and prepare our kids—and why restoring childhood may require adults to step back so kids can step forward.
Listen and Learn:
Why play is a biological drive across young mammals—and how it helps children practice the skills they need to become increasingly independent
How self-directed play teaches children to negotiate, compromise, solve problems, consider other people’s needs, and navigate conflict without adults stepping in
Why children’s freedom to play and explore independently has declined dramatically over the past several decades—and what Peter means by the disappearance of a distinct “culture of childhood”
How children’s peer cultures once gave kids opportunities to create their own games, norms, language, and social worlds largely outside adult oversight
The surprising mental health trends Peter identifies from 1950 onward, including rising distress during decades when children’s independence was declining
Why Peter believes the arrival of home computers in the 1990s may actually have improved adolescent well-being by giving teens new opportunities for mastery, independence, play, and connection with peers
How early computers created an unusual reversal in expertise, with teenagers often knowing more than their parents—and why that experience of competence may have mattered
Why video games and other forms of pretend or risky play can give children opportunities to experience fear, vulnerability, challenge, and mastery in relatively safe environments
Peter’s critique of the popular claim that smartphones and social media are the primary cause of today’s youth mental health crisis, and why he argues the broader research literature does not support such a simple causal story
Why Peter sees increasing academic pressure and changes in American schooling as an overlooked contributor to rising anxiety, depression, and burnout among young people
How schools could become more supportive of mental health by improving school climate, increasing student autonomy, restoring teacher flexibility, protecting recess, and reducing unnecessary academic pressure
One simple question parents can ask children to begin expanding their independence: What would you like to be doing on your own that you aren’t doing now?
Why shifting from “What am I afraid to let my child do?” toward “What could I encourage my child to do independently?” can help both children and parents build confidence
What Peter calls “TAS parenting”—combining trustful and autonomy-supportive parenting by not only trusting children’s developing capabilities but actively creating opportunities for them to exercise independence
Resources:
Peter Gray’s book Restoring Childhood: How to Set Kids Free in the Age of Anxiety
Peter’s book Free to Learn: Why Unleashing the Instinct to Play Will Make Our Children Happier, More Self-Reliant, and Better Students for Life
Peter’s website: petergray.org
Peter’s Substack: Play Makes Us Human

About Peter Gray:
Peter Gray is a research professor of psychology and neuroscience at Boston College. He has conducted and published research in neuroendocrinology, developmental psychology, anthropology, and education. He did his undergraduate study at Columbia University and earned a Ph.D. in biological sciences at Rockefeller University. His current research and writing focus primarily on children’s natural ways of learning and the life-long value of play. He has helped found and continues to support nonprofit organizations aimed at bringing more play and independent activity to children’s lives. He is the author of an internationally acclaimed college introductory psychology textbook (Psychology, now in its8th edition), which views all of psychology from an evolutionary perspective, and of Free to Learn: Why Unleashing the Instinct to Play Will Make Our Children Happier, More Self-Reliant, and Better Students for Life. His newest book, Restoring Childhood: How to Set Kids Free in the Age of Anxiety, is out now.
Related Episodes:
470. Parenting Science in the Media: Lost in Translation
433. Rethinking Screens and Video Games with Ash Brandin
414. The Disengaged Teen with Rebecca Winthrop and Jenny Anderson
382. The Anxious Generation? The Conversation We Should Be Having About Kids, Technology, and Mental Health
369. Good News About Adolescence with Ellen Galinsky
319. Autonomy-Supportive Parenting with Emily Edlynn

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What if some of the things you believe most strongly aren’t actually facts—but tools you’re using to navigate a complicated world?
In this bittersweet final interview for Psychologists Off the Clock, Jill Stoddard welcomes back Nir Eyal, author of Beyond Belief: The Science-Backed Way to Stop Limiting Yourself and Achieve Extraordinary Results. Nir was Jill’s very first guest when she joined the podcast, making this conversation a fitting bookend to her time on POTC. Together, they explore how our beliefs shape motivation, perception, pain, relationships, and our ability to create lasting change.
Nir explains why beliefs are different from facts or faith, and why treating beliefs as tools rather than truths can give us more flexibility. He shares his personal story of struggling with his weight, how changing his beliefs helped him persist, and what his experience with Pain Reprocessing Therapy taught him about chronic pain.
You’ll hear why “seeing is believing” is only half the story, how our expectations can change our experience of pain and pleasure, why venting may reinforce the very beliefs that keep us stuck, and how expanding your portfolio of perspectives can create more freedom in relationships and everyday life.
Join Jill and Nir for a fascinating conversation about the power of belief—and a reminder that feeling bad isn’t necessarily bad. Sometimes, pain comes with purpose.
Listen and Learn:
Why beliefs are neither facts nor faith, but flexible “working models” that help us navigate reality when the truth isn’t fully knowable
How beliefs influence motivation, behavior, and persistence—and why believing you can succeed may be just as important as knowing what to do
Nir’s personal weight-loss journey and how searching for the “one true” diet ultimately got in the way of persistence
Why beliefs can be powerful tools even when we can’t prove that they are objectively true, and how choosing beliefs that serve us can change the way we respond to everyday challenges
How attention shapes perception, why our brains rely on predictions and prior beliefs, and what the classic checkerboard illusion teaches us about seeing reality
The relationship between beliefs, expectations, pain, and suffering—including what Nir learned from Pain Reprocessing Therapy and the surprising power of the brain to change the experience of chronic pain
Why feeling bad isn’t necessarily bad, and how redefining discomfort as something that can accompany purpose may help us stop avoiding the experiences that matter
How placebo and nocebo effects demonstrate the powerful role of expectations, and why beliefs can influence our experience through changes in behavior and biology
Why venting can reinforce negative beliefs about other people, and how “getting it off your chest” may provide short-term relief while making us angrier in the long run
How Inquiry-Based Stress Reduction can help us loosen rigid beliefs by developing a broader “portfolio” of possible perspectives rather than forcing ourselves to replace one belief with another
Nir’s personal transformation in his relationship with his mother, and how questioning assumptions about other people can create more flexibility without requiring them to change
How expanding our beliefs can create “wiggle room” to respond more flexibly, reconnect with our values, and take responsibility for our own contribution to difficult situations
Resources:
Nir’s book Beyond Belief: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780593852033
Free belief change guide is here: www.nirandfar.com/beyond-belief-live
Bonus content and the 30-Day Belief Transformation Journal is here: nirandfar.com/beyond-belief
Website: http://nirandfar.com
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/nireyal/
Instagram - http://instagram.com/nireyal
Previous books:
Hooked: geni.us/hooked
Indistractable: geni.us/Indistractable

About Nir Eyal:
Nir Eyal writes, consults, and teaches about the intersection of psychology, technology, and human potential. He previously taught at the Stanford Graduate School of Business and the Hasso Plattner Institute of Design at Stanford.
He is the author of the international bestsellers Hooked and Indistractable, which have sold more than a million copies in more than 30 languages. His latest book, Beyond Belief: The Science-Backed Way to Stop Limiting Yourself and Achieve Extraordinary Results, explores the science of beliefs and how they influence our perceptions, behaviors, and ability to create lasting change. The book recently reached the New York Times bestseller list.
Nir is also an active angel investor whose portfolio includes multi-billion-dollar companies such as Canva and Kahoot!. He blogs at NirAndFar.com and has published writing in The New York Times and Harvard Business Review. He is also a regular contributor to Psychology Today.
Related Episodes:
127. Indistractable with Nir Eyal
310. The Expectation Effect with David Robson
312. Throwback Episode! The Invisible Gorilla with Christopher Chabris
422. Mindwise with Nicholas Epley
443. Shift with Ethan Kross
458. The Pain/Brain Connection with Alan Gordon

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What makes an explanation feel satisfying, and does that feeling have anything to do with whether it's actually true?
Cognitive scientist Tania Lombrozo, author of Why We Ask Why: The Science of Explanation and the Human Drive to Understand, joins Michael to talk about the human drive to explain: where it comes from and what it buys us. She also makes the case that explanations aren't objects sitting out in the world waiting to be found, but mental acts we construct.
Tania walks through why philosophers and psychologists have circled the same phenomenon from different angles, and why a strong drive to explain isn't an obvious thing to build into an intelligent system in the first place. Curiosity, she explains, works as a filter on the endless supply of questions we could be asking. She also shares what her own lab has found about what actually predicts it, and why a satisfying explanation tends to open up more questions rather than shut inquiry down.
Along the way: Alison Gopnik's provocatively titled paper on the aha moment, and the explore/exploit trade-off behind the randomized summer reading program Tania uses to keep herself exploring. They also get into the self-explanation effect, and why explaining to another person usually beats explaining to yourself. The conversation closes on what to do when a three-year-old asks why, including how to bring a chatbot into that moment without skipping the part where good inquiry gets modeled.

Listen and Learn:
Why a strong drive to explain isn't an obvious thing to build into an intelligent system, and what seeking explanations actually does for creatures like us
Why explanations are mental acts rather than facts sitting out in the world, and how a punchline makes that idea concrete
How curiosity filters the endless supply of questions we could ask, and why we gravitate toward things just one step beyond what we already understand
What happens to your curiosity right after a satisfying explanation, and why good answers tend to open up more questions instead of closing them off
The explore/exploit trade-off, and practical ways to build a little more randomness into what you read and what you try
Why explaining something to another person usually beats explaining it to yourself, and the three things that make the difference
How to respond when a child asks why, and how to use AI tools with kids without cutting out the modeling of good inquiry

Resources:
Tania’s book: Why We Ask Why https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780063395008
Twitter / X: https://x.com/tanialombrozo?lang=en
Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/tanialombrozo.bsky.social
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tania-lombrozo
Tania's Website: www.tanialombrozo.com http://www.tanialombrozo.com/
Michael’s Confidence Course http://herold.coach/course

About Tania Lombrozo
Tania Lombrozo is Arthur W. Marks '19 Professor of Psychology at Princeton University. She holds degrees in cognitive science and philosophy from Stanford University and in psychology from Harvard University. Her award-winning research has explored the human drive for explanation in both children and adults. She lives in Princeton, New Jersey, with her husband and two daughters. Her book, Why We Ask Why: The Science of Explanation and the Human Drive to Understand, will be released in October 2026.

Related Episodes:
428. How to Fall in Love with Questions with Elizabeth Weingarten
385. Oliver Burkeman on Embracing Your Limitations
457. Tiny Experiments with Anne-Laure Le Cunff
429. May Contain Lies with Alex Edmans

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Navigating a loved one's mental health struggles can feel like walking a tightrope between wanting to save them and trying to keep your own head above water.
In this episode, Dr. David Dozois from the University of Western Ontario highlights his book, What to Do When Your Partner Is Depressed, talking through the toll depression can take on relationships and why the supporting partner's experience so often goes unnoticed.
He shares with us why our instinct to "fix" a partner's pain can often backfire, and offers up actionable strategies for giving real support, encouraging treatment, and how to shift from frustration to true connection, without taking on the role of an unpaid therapist.
Plus, David touches on essential self-care, navigating tricky boundary dynamics, and safely approaching heavy, sensitive topics couples tend to avoid.

Listen and Learn:
How clinical depression differs from ordinary sadness, how it impacts both partners in a relationship, and actionable, evidence-based strategies to support a depressed partner without burning out or sacrificing their own well-being
The complexities of supporting a depressed partner and reveal why the human impulse to "fix" things often backfires, sharing research-backed strategies on how to move from wrestling with your partner to truly connecting with them first
The art of true active listening, explaining why genuine empathy means tuning into your partner’s heart rather than just rehearsing your next response
Framing depression as a shared "we" problem rather than an individual label to encourage a struggling partner to seek help without putting them on the defensive
How non-depressed partners can support their loved one without burning out or slipping into the role of an unpaid therapist
How excessive reassurance seeking can strain a relationship, and why setting compassionate boundaries and practicing response prevention are essential for long-term trust
Navigating the delicate balance between self-care and supporting a loved one through depression

Resources:
David’s Website: https://dozoislab.com
David’s book: What to Do When Your Partner Is Depressed: Supporting Your Loved One While Caring for Yourselfhttps://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/what-to-do-when-your-partner-is-depressed
Pre-order Yael’s new book, Why Don’t You Understand Me?: The Surprising Science Behind Connecting in a World of Missed Signals. Then fill out THIS form to get pre-order bonuses!
Link to Yael’s newsletter and (for paid subscribers), a chance to win a copy of David’s book!

About David Dozois
David Dozois is a professor of psychology and psychiatry at the University of Western Ontario, where he directs the clinical psychology graduate program and studies cognitive vulnerability to depression, the "why" behind who gets stuck in depressive thinking and why it's so hard to climb out. He's published more than 200 scientific articles and books and has served as president of the Canadian Psychological Association twice.
His new book, What to Do When Your Partner Is Depressed: Supporting Your Loved One While Caring for Yourself, tackles something couples therapists see constantly and talk about far too little: depression is never really a solo experience. It moves into the relationship and unpacks its bags. The partner who isn't depressed often becomes the default project manager of the household, the mood, and the marriage, all while getting none of the concern, support, or permission to fall apart themselves. David's work is a rare combination of rigorous science and genuinely useful, human advice for the partner nobody's checking in on.

Related Episodes:
135. Power of Empathy and Motivational Interviewing with Stephen Rollnick
255. Influence is Your Superpower with Zoe Chance
397. The Mindful Path to Intimacy with James Cordova
408. Connecting Like a Hostage Negotiator with Gary Noesner
413. Validate with Caroline Fleck
449. How to Feel Loved with Sonja Lyubomirsky and Harry Reis
472. One Relationship, Two Brains with Cindy Ariel

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Parenting a kid with ADHD takes way more than standard advice; it requires understanding a complex brain difference that impacts focus, sleep, big emotions, and daily energy.
In this episode, child psychologist Dr. Emily King and TILT Parenting founder Debbie Reber join Emily to give their perspective on what neurodivergent parenting looks like by challenging the "disorder" label, unpacking why behaviors shift between home and school, and diving into hidden struggles like RSD, time blindness, and burnout.
From navigating evaluations to handling the gap between your child's age and their developmental stage, this conversation offers the honest, evidence-based grounding every parent needs.
Tune in now, and reach out to Emily Edlynn to learn more about her 1-on-1 parent coaching!

Listen and Learn:
Should ADHD be framed as a medical disorder or a brain regulation difference?
How pathologizing language impacts stigma, diagnosis, and access to support in both clinical and educational settings
Why the name "ADHD" is misleading and how the disorder goes far beyond inattention and hyperactivity to affect emotional regulation, sleep, appetite, and energy management
How to navigate the ADHD diagnosis process from choosing between a pediatrician and a full neuropsychological evaluation to gathering cross-environment data and shifting parent strategies for lasting behavioral change
Overlooked ADHD traits that rarely get covered in formal evaluations and practical strategies to support your child without damaging their self-esteem
How ADHD-related time blindness, task avoidance, and a lack of future-oriented thinking drive daily struggles like running late and better understanding your child's neurodivergent experience
How emotional sensitivity, sensory processing, and energy regulation manifest in children with ADHD and autism and why a child's behavior can look so drastically different between home and school
Why raising a neurodivergent child feels like "advanced parenting," and the deep isolation, constant judgment, and overwhelming family burnout that comes with it

Resources:
https://www.dremilyking.com/
The Neurodivergent Learner https://www.learnwithdremily.com/book
https://www.learnwithdremily.com/book
https://www.instagram.com/emilywkingphd/
https://www.facebook.com/emilywkingphd
https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilywkingphd/
https://www.debbiereber.com/
Differently Wired: A Parent’s Guide to Raising an Atypical Child with Confidence and Hope https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781523506316
https://www.facebook.com/DeborahReberAuthor/
https://twitter.com/debbiereber
Tilt Parenting Podcast 359 A Conversation with Dr. Emily Edlynn on Raising Autonomous Children
Emily Edlynn’s website – contact her directly if you are interested in a parent group!
Emily Edlynn’s Substack pieces about ADHD:
Raising ADHD: Beyond the Diagnosis
Raising ADHD: Why Common Parenting Strategies Don’t Work
What the New York Times Got Wrong About ADHD
Understanding This One Emotion Will Transform Your Parenting

About Emily King and Debbie Reber
Emily King is a child psychologist who has worked with neurodivergent learners for over 20 years. She received a Ph.D. in School Psychology from the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill and began her career in Houston, Texas specializing in school-based mental health in K-12 public schools. She has since worked in private practice in North Carolina supporting the mental health, executive functioning, and social needs of neurodivergent youth. Dr. Emily hosts the Learn with Dr. Emily Substack, where she provides parent workshops, is the creator of The Neurodiverse Classroom®, a professional development curriculum for educators, and her first book, THE NEURODIVERGENT LEARNER, came out on August 25th.

Debbie Reber is a parenting activist, bestselling author, speaker, and the founder of Tilt Parenting, a top resource for parents raising neurodivergent children. Since launching Tilt in 2016, Debbie has championed a strengths-based approach that reframes how society supports differently wired kids. Her groundbreaking book, Differently Wired, is widely recommended by professionals in education and mental health, and her Full-Tilt Parenting Podcast has 10+ million downloads, featuring leading voices in the intersection of parenting and neurodivergence. A parent coach and Positive Discipline trainer, Debbie has been featured in The Washington Post, The New York Times, and on NewsNation, is a three-time TEDx speaker, and is a founding expert and advisor for HumanUp. She lives in the Netherlands with her husband and two cats, while her neurodivergent young adult attends university in Scotland.

Related Episodes:
395. Neurodivergence with Jennifer Kemp
367. ADHD in Adulthood with Michaela Thomas
344. Differently Wired Kids with Deborah Reber
319. Autonomy-Supportive Parenting with the AMAZING Emily Edlynn
202. The Addiction Inoculation with Jess Lahey
187. Raising a Child with ADHD with Russell Barkley

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