Distance To Empty

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Nickademus de La Rosa is back on Distance to Empty! Since his last visit in 2024, Nick has finished his master’s in sports and performance psychology, moved to Canada, and launched Imperfect Mental Performance. He and Kevin compare brutal European 200s like Tor des Géants and Swiss Peaks 360 with the US 200 scene. They cover why these races keep getting faster and why the “specialist” is dead. They also get into how training theory has shifted from pure vert to running economy to fatigue resistance. Nick shares his favorite sports-psych tools: separating self-worth from performance, racing from curiosity, and setting a goal your ego hates. Plus: Kevin’s 100-mile PR at Canal Corridor, Peter’s 73 untrained miles, and an updated take on whether Tor is harder than Barkley.
Show Notes
In this episode
What Nick’s been up to: graduating from University of Western States, moving to Canada (and getting turned around at the border with a U-Haul), and working with endurance athletes on the mental game
How Nick’s approach has shifted from Internal Family Systems toward CBT and behavior chains, using “the lower dose” when that’s all an athlete needs
Kevin’s 18:21 100-mile PR at Canal Corridor, and why low-pressure races create room for curiosity, joy, and presence
Hot takes from Tor des Géants and Swiss Peaks 360: faster finishing times, top 100-milers moving to 200s, and sleep strategies (early naps vs. 15–20 minute micro-naps)
Mammoth 200: Kevin finished ninth in 58 hours with zero sleep, and the front of the pack is tighter than ever
The culture gap: social media and the “hybrid athlete” crowd at US 200s vs. European races, plus thoughts on the Moab 240 cancellation
Mental prep for long races: appraising your abilities accurately, managing expectations, and fighting the “existential pointlessness” of days three and four (“this inch still matters on day four”)
Looking back at Kevin’s 2023 Tor: hitting an emotional low six miles in, and what he’d do differently
Training evolution: big vert, then running economy, then fatigue resistance and durability. Can you still climb at the same pace in hour five of a six-hour day?
Why the long descents are the hardest thing to prepare for in the US, and why training on the course is the real secret
Nick’s litmus test for anyone eyeing Tor: a three-day block of steep repeats on 1,000 ft/mile climbs
“If your ego hates the goal, you’ve appraised it correctly”
Kevin’s upcoming Oslo Bergen Trail 500K
Revisiting Nick’s claim that Tor is harder than Barkley: “easier to finish” vs. “easier”

Coaching with Distance to Empty
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Sponsors & Swag
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The turn has tabled! This time Peter interviews Kevin about his Badwater 135. After years of saying he'd never run it, Kevin crewed Francis in 2024 and Peter in 2025, then decided he had to see what it felt like to cross Death Valley on foot. He started the 9 PM wave feeling the best he'd ever felt in a race. He ran sub-10 miles in 118°F heat and hit mile 50 by sunrise. Around mile 20, though, a mild pain in his lower left shin started and steadily got worse. He held on through Towne Pass, Father Crowley, and the long flat stretch to Lone Pine, reached mile 100 in under 21 hours, and ground up the Whitney Portal Road to finish in just under 31 hours. A few hours later, the ER in Lone Pine diagnosed cellulitis.
We also cover:
Kevin's 18-hour, 21-minute 100-mile PR and Western States qualifier at Canal Corridor 100, and Peter's truly untrained 73 miles
Heat acclimation from altitude training in Leadville plus sauna sessions
Kevin's fueling plan: about 70g of carbs per hour with Open Fuel and gels
The Badwater hotel puzzle that comes before the race itself
Peter's birthday unicycle
Starlink in Death Valley, walkie-talkie mischief, and Chris's homemade battery-powered misting pack
A surprise dinosaur in Lone Pine
The ER trip, a "syphilis" scare, and a recovery drive to Bishop (with a stop at Schat's)
Welcome, Open Fuel! We're excited to announce Open Fuel as our newest sponsor. Use code DISTANCE for 20% off.
Our other partners:
Mount to Coast: Use code DISTANCE. Kevin and the crew ran in the Badwater-edition C135s.
Janji: In the post-purchase survey, select "Podcast," then "Distance to Empty."
TrainingPeaks: Create a free account and send us your welcome email, and we'll mail you some Distance to Empty bib boards.
Swag: Send a screenshot of your receipt or survey to @distancetoemptypod on Instagram or distancetoemptypod@gmail.com for free swag. Options include new "Normalize Crying in Ultras" hats, "Have a Nice Run" shirts, and bib boards. For a limited time, any Open Fuel, Mount to Coast, or Janji order over $50 also gets you one of Kevin's TrainingPeaks training plans of your choice, free.

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Moab 240 2026 Course Preview: Every Section, Every Change, with Head Trail Marker Jameson Collins
The Moab 240 starts this week, and we've got a full section-by-section breakdown of the 2026 course. Kevin is joined by Jameson Collins, head trail marker for Destination Trail. Jameson is a two-time Moab finisher and has spent this week out marking the course, so he has current, on-the-ground details on what runners will face.
Kevin and Jameson cover every leg from the arch in downtown Moab, through the desert of Lockhart Basin, up into the Abajos and the La Sals, and back to town. They rate each section from 1 to 5, ski-slope style, so runners know when they're on a green run and when they're on a double black. They also go through what's new this year:
The start moves back to 6 AM, and they explain the reasoning behind it.
There's a new 3-liter minimum water carry out of Base Camp, with a 1-liter maximum top-off at the Lockhart water stop. They explain why it exists and how much water you should actually carry.
Drop bags are now available at Base Camp and the Oasis.
Bridger Jack is a new sleep station.
The fire reroute has been cleared. Runners will still pass through burn areas on Shea and the climb from Shea to Monticello Lake.
Green and yellow crew groups apply at Shea Mountain and Monticello Lake, along with the pacer drop-off rules.
The final section has a construction detour. Runners now come down through Sand Flats and the Falcon Flow trail and finish by running through downtown Moab.
Along the way you'll hear about the Oasis "mirage," the double climb on Shea, why Road 46 might be the most important aid station on the course, and Jameson's advice for crews: get out and enjoy Moab while you wait.
In the outro, Peter Noyes is back with his top tip for the race (spoiler: sleep at Road 46), a message for runners listening mid-race, a quick round of Let's Get Deep, and some questionable prep for his own 100-miler this weekend.
Chapters (main episode)
00:00 Intro with Jameson Collins
02:46 What's new for 2026
07:03 Rating system and Start → Hidden Valley
12:21 Hidden Valley → Amasa Back
19:53 Amasa Back → Base Camp (Jackson's Ladder)
25:10 Base Camp → Oasis via Lockhart (water carry rules)
33:30 Oasis → Indian Creek
35:40 Indian Creek → The Island
40:56 The Island → Bridger Jack
46:23 Bridger Jack → Shea Mountain
51:40 Green and yellow crew groups explained
55:31 Shea Mountain → Monticello Lake
58:29 Monticello Lake → Dry Valley
1:01:27 Dry Valley → Needles → Road 46
1:05:23 Road 46 → Pole Canyon
1:09:32 Pole Canyon → Geyser Pass
1:14:48 Geyser Pass → Porcupine Rim
1:19:02 Porcupine Rim → Finish (new 2026 route)
1:24:10 Closing advice
Outro: Peter's tips, a message for runners on course, and Let's Get Deep
Support the show and get free swag
Place an order with Mount to Coast using code DISTANCE for 10% off, or order from Janji and select "Podcast → Distance to Empty" at checkout. Then send your receipt screenshot, size, and address to @distancetoemptypod on Instagram or distancetoemptypod@gmail.com. If you order or leave a review while you're out on the Moab course, we'll send you something extra special.
Join our Patreon for the Discord community and bonus content. It's the first link in the show notes.
Good luck out there, Moab runners. Stay in the fight.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Play The Mammoth 200⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Video Game!

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Meet the Mammoths — Bailey Gripshover: The ICU, the PCT, and the Potato Lifestyle
Today's guest spends her working life in a cardiothoracic ICU in Seattle, with patients having the worst days of their lives. When she's not there, she's choosing to suffer on trails — a contrast she says keeps everything in perspective when a race doesn't go the way she hoped.
Bailey Gripshover finished top 10 in her 200-mile debut at Cocodona 250 this past May, and held the lead in the inaugural MBA at Mingus for a while after sinking a shot she fully expected to miss. This October she's back for a second crack at the distance at Mammoth.
We talk about what it's like running these races with a medical background: knowing when to pull the plug on an Arizona Trail FKT attempt because of a swollen Achilles, and also completely botching her own electrolytes at Javelina despite managing electrolyte imbalances at work every single day. She also makes a strong case for being the best-prepared person in the field on sleep — 12-to-14-hour ICU shifts, flip-flopping between days and nights, operating at a high level while exhausted because there isn't another option.
Plus: how hiking the PCT in 2019 introduced her to the idea that people race these distances at all, why the Eastern Sierra is family terrain (her grandpa did the JMT, and she summited Whitney with her mom and sister for her mom's 60th), and her Mammoth 200 video game result — currently second on our leaderboard at 68 hours, after a first attempt where she DNF'd because her feet disintegrated on the pumice. She is now, genuinely, reconsidering gaiters.
In this episode:
Perspective from the ICU, and why it's "just running"
When medical knowledge helps, and when it doesn't
Shift work as accidental sleep-deprivation training
Four hours of sleep and almost no hallucinations at Cocodona
A virtual DNF by foot destruction, and a potential gaiter conversion
Making a basket at Mingus and riding the high
Her prediction: this will have the best aid station food in ultrarunning
Peter's preferred potato orientation
Mammoth 200 kicks off Friday, October 2nd in Mammoth Lakes, California. Catch live coverage on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel, and follow @Mammoth200 for updates and tracking throughout the race.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Play The Mammoth 200⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Video Game!

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Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!
Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Kevin and Peter break down the 2026 Mammoth 200 course, just days before race weekend. Kevin ran the race last year and shares his memories of each section, while Peter, who hasn't run it, serves as emotional support co-host. They cover what's changed for 2026 and go through the course section by section, with difficulty ratings, crew tips, and where things get tough.
What's new in 2026
Start time is 9 AM, an hour later than last year, and the race is a week later in the calendar
The course is now billed at 218 miles (up from 214), and the cutoff has been extended to 109 hours
GU Energy Labs replaces Never Second as the nutrition sponsor, and all aid stations are cupless
Duck Pass (mile 17) is now water only
The first crew-accessible stop is now CRC at mile 24, about 8 miles sooner than last year's Sherwin Creek
The longest gap between aid stations is now 15.4 miles (CRC to Convict Lake)
Crowley Lake has moved to the ball field
Green Church is now Watterson Summit
Lee Vining has moved to Gus Hess Community Park, with an outdoor sleep station
Runners now pass under Highway 395 at the Rush Creek Overpass instead of crossing with a crossing guard
Walker Lake is now a full aid station
There's a new water drop at the bottom of the Parker Bench descent
June Lake Junction replaces Obsidian Dome, and Upper Deadman (Glass Creek) replaces Inyo Craters
The indoor Main Lodge aid station (mile 207) replaces Minaret Vista, followed by a steeper, shorter climb to the summit
The course by the numbers
218 miles, roughly 31,000 feet of gain and loss
High point of 11,053 feet, with an average elevation around 8,000 feet
A loop around a caldera roughly 760,000 years old
Section-by-section highlights
Village to CRC: the Dragon's Back descent is the most technical part of the course
CRC to Crowley Lake: a hot valley-floor gravel road, then the Convict Lake loop at sunset
Crowley Lake to Watterson Summit: sandy, punchy double track and the Lion's Den tunnel
Watterson to Sawmill to Taylor Canyon: some of the hardest miles on the course, with pumice, exposure, and a non-crew aid station
Taylor Canyon to Crater Mountain: fast, runnable double track through Jeffrey pine forest
Crater Mountain to Lee Vining: moonscape views, a long descent, and one easy-to-miss turn
Lee Vining to Upper Deadman: Parker Bench, an overgrown descent, and a steep climb out of June Lake
The final push: Main Lodge, the summit, and a 3,000-foot descent to the village
Kevin and Peter also share crew logistics, including a reminder to double-check driving directions to Watterson Summit and Crooked Meadows, since Google Maps often gets them wrong. They wrap up with advice for the weekend: be ready for anything the Sierra weather throws at you, and keep troubleshooting.
Important: Always verify details against the current official race and course manual, since changes often happen after recording.
Also mentioned
The Canal Corridor Hundred on October 10, where Kevin and Peter are running
The free Oregon Trail-style Mammoth video game (link in show notes)
The Meet the Mammoth series and last year's course preview with Hillary
Sponsors
Janji: Order, choose "podcast" then "Distance to Empty" on the post-purchase survey, and send us a screenshot for free Distance to Empty swag.
Mount to Coast: Use code DISTANCE for 10% off.
Support the show: Check out our Patreon for coaching options (first link in the show notes).