Two Plus Two: The Swinger Podcast for Couples

Zack and Josie are on their own again as they tackle a listener’s difficult question about navigating the lifestyle when partners have very different ideas about intimacy, emotions, and what feels comfortable.
Only three months into the lifestyle, the listener and his wife have formed a strong four-way connection with another couple. He wants to develop a close, sensual relationship with the other wife while still viewing and desiring the relationship as something shared between the two couples. His wife, however, feels insecure about the depth of that connection and has made it clear that she doesn’t want to develop feelings for people they have sex with.
What initially sounds like a disagreement about what is—or isn’t—too intimate quickly becomes a much deeper conversation about insecurity, fear, shame, vulnerability, and the need to feel safe with the person who is supposed to be your partner through it all. Zack and Josie explore the difference between making love and just fucking, how couples can move through the lifestyle together when their boundaries don't perfectly align, and why communication is foundational to sexual exploration and liberation.
They also discuss how partners can create the kind of safety that makes difficult conversations possible, how to support rather than invalidate each other’s feelings, and why being fully supported by a partner can make all the difference when confronting the internal struggles that come with exploring outside the traditional boundaries of a relationship.
True to form, Zack and Josie use thought experiments to examine the situation from different perspectives and offer their best advice for navigating this—and the many other difficult conversations couples may encounter along their lifestyle journey.

Support our podcast by booking your ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠travel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or purchasing your lifestyle products using our affiliate links. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twoplustwopodcast.com/resources/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

(00:00:00) A listener’s email
(00:03:44) What is considered too intimate?
(00:08:05) Making love and fucking
(00:11:07) Moving through the lifestyle as partners
(00:14:55) The internal struggle and performance anxiety
(00:21:10) Relational vs transactional swinging
(00:26:13) Communication in play experiences is key
(00:29:10) Let’s talk about sex, Baby
(00:32:44) Have the conversations - feeling safe is key
(00:37:04) Thought experiments and evolving in the lifestyle
(00:42:27) Sexual liberation and total acceptance and support
(00:44:34) Labels don’t tell the whole story
(00:46:15) Navigating difficult conversations
(00:48:18) Closing thoughts and advice

We'd love to connect with you!

Create your own FREE account on Peaches'nCream, the new social media app for your lifestyle!
INVITE CODE: 2PLUS2
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://web.peachesncream.app/⁠⁠⁠⁠

Join the Two Plus Two Podcast Group on Peaches'nCream to see our exclusive photos, post your comments, ask questions and connect with Zack and Josie.

Email us your thoughts, comments and ideas at:
⁠⁠hello@twoplustwopodcast.com
⁠
Want to be a guest? Start with our guest application and tell us all about yourselves!
https://twoplustwopodcast.com/guest/

Resources
Book a Cruise or Your Trip to Temptation or Desire
https://twoplustwopodcast.com/resources/

For the first time, Zack and Josie recorded an episode of Two Plus Two entirely on their own—and they had plenty to talk about. They share the highs and lows of their first Naughty N’awlins experience, an event they had heard only positive things about.
In a little nod to their previous conversation about taboo, they stepped well outside their normal routine and had five back-to-back play experiences, playing every day they were there. They discuss the positives and negatives of doing that and share some unexpected consequences. They each weigh in on whether they would repeat five days of consecutive play and what they may do differently.
They attended workshops for the first time and experienced a dungeon tasting, where Josie was introduced to e-stim and the violet wand. She enjoyed the experience enough to purchase a violet wand of her own from The Dungeon Store.
And then there’s the secret Brad repeatedly teased them about: How can you tell whether a play session is going to be good before you actually play? Zack and Josie finally reveal what they believe is the answer and discuss whether they would still play if they suspected the experience might not be great—or simply walk away and have sex with each other instead.
Josie also reveals a shift in her mindset from “give me reasons to say yes” to “give me reasons to say no,” leading to a conversation about how their approach to play has evolved. They briefly share their experience at Colette and invite listeners to weigh in on whether they prioritize quantity or quality in their own experiences by joining the conversation on Peaches’nCream.

Support our podcast by booking your ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠travel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or purchasing your lifestyle products using our affiliate links. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twoplustwopodcast.com/resources/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

(00:00:00) Overall vibe of Naughty N’awlins and host hotels
(00:06:27) Our first ever workshops
(00:14:42) Dungeon tasting and the violet wand
(00:19:50) We made connections prior to the event
(00:26:31) We were naughty at Naughty
(00:28:04) Our experience of Colette
(00:31:56) Back to back play experiences
(00:37:58) Quality over quantity
(00:40:28) The negatives at Naughty
(00:42:51) The health related negatives after Naughty
(00:47:27) What we’ll do differently next time

We'd love to connect with you!

Create your own FREE account on Peaches'nCream, the new social media app for your lifestyle!
INVITE CODE: 2PLUS2
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://web.peachesncream.app/⁠⁠⁠⁠

Join the Two Plus Two Podcast Group on Peaches'nCream to see our exclusive photos, post your comments, ask questions and connect with Zack and Josie.

Email us your thoughts, comments and ideas at:
⁠⁠hello@twoplustwopodcast.com⁠

Want to be a guest? Start with our guest application and tell us all about yourselves!
https://twoplustwopodcast.com/guest/

Resources
Book a Cruise or Your Trip to Temptation or Desire
https://twoplustwopodcast.com/resources/
The Dungeon Store
www.TheDungeonStore.com

Genie and Dr. G join Zack and Josie for their first appearance on the podcast. For more than a decade, they have created lifestyle events designed to give couples—and eventually singles—a safe, discreet and inclusive place to explore their sexuality. Through Genie Wishes, Arizona Fantasy Club and their fastest-growing group, Hot Wife Community, consent and respect are at the heart of everything they do.
The conversation explores what it means to participate in a lifestyle that society often considers taboo. Genie and Dr. G share how their upbringings and societal expectations shaped their views about sex, relationships, guilt and shame—and how challenging those expectations has led to personal growth.
They also discuss vulnerability between partners, creating a safe space for difficult conversations, making propositions without creating pressure, and how to handle a “no” with love and respect.
It’s an honest conversation about challenging the rules people are taught to follow, embracing vulnerability, and discovering what can happen when couples give themselves permission to explore the parts of their sexuality that society tells them should remain taboo.

Support our podcast by booking your ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠travel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or purchasing your lifestyle products using our affiliate links. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twoplustwopodcast.com/resources/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

(00:00:00) Safety, consent and discretion are the cornerstones
(00:10:54) Genie Wishes and Arizona Fantasy Club
(00:12:33) Hot Wife Community 
(00:17:08) Reframing sex and the Vegas mindset
(00:20:33) Societal and familial expectations and conditioning
(00:27:31) Gay clubs are great for dancing
(00:33:28) Dr. G’s upbringing and what other people think
(00:36:54) Being vulnerable and creating a safe space for taboo subjects
(00:41:27) Navigating propositions and conversations with respect
(00:45:04) Reactions, responses and disappointment
(00:47:44) Stigma of bisexuality for both men and women
(00:55:14) Shame and guilt
(01:00:44) Processing negative experiences
(01:05:02) Internal and external struggles

We'd love to connect with you!

Create your own FREE account on Peaches'nCream, the new social media app for your lifestyle!
INVITE CODE: 2PLUS2
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://web.peachesncream.app/⁠⁠⁠⁠

Join the Two Plus Two Podcast Group on Peaches'nCream to see our exclusive photos, post your comments, ask questions and connect with Zack and Josie.

Email us your thoughts, comments and ideas at:
⁠⁠hello@twoplustwopodcast.com
⁠
Want to be a guest? Start with our guest application and tell us all about yourselves!
https://twoplustwopodcast.com/guest/

Resources
Book Your Trip to Temptation or Desire
https://twoplustwopodcast.com/resources/

Dr. G & Genie's Groups
Arizona Fantasy Club
https://arizonafantasyclub.com/
Hot Wife Community
https://hotwifecommunity.com/
Genie Wishes
https://www.geniewishesevents.com/

Zack and Josie welcome new guests Rick and Gwen for a conversation about their unique journey navigating the lifestyle together. After meeting a little over a year ago, the two began building their connection while exploring how the lifestyle would fit into their relationship.
When they met, Gwen was already a unicorn in the lifestyle, while Rick brought extensive experience as a pleasure Dom. Together, they have had to navigate the changes that came with shifting from individual experiences to exploring as a couple. They share the growing pains, lessons learned, and how they continue to support each other’s interests and desires.
Gwen talks about how she discovered the lifestyle and what keeps her drawn to it, while Rick shares his journey of finding a place for his BDSM interests with partners who genuinely enjoy those dynamics.
The conversation also dives into the challenges singles often face in the lifestyle, including feelings of loneliness and navigating connections without the built-in support of a partner. Rick and Gwen discuss the differences between solo experiences and couple experiences, including the unique bond couples can build when they reconnect and share their adventures together.
This episode explores connection, communication, evolving roles, and the ways relationships can grow when partners embrace each other’s authentic selves.

Support our podcast by booking your ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠travel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or purchasing your lifestyle products using our affiliate links. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twoplustwopodcast.com/resources/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

(00:00:00) Gwen’s journey into the lifestyle as a unicorn
(00:05:52) Rick’s BDSM journey
(00:09:55) BDSM doesn’t interest Gwen, but she respects his desire for it
(00:12:11) The pleasure Dom
(00:18:00) Rick and Gwen met on Feeld
(00:22:42) Building a relationship while navigating the lifestyle together
(00:26:57) Perceptions and expectations 
(00:32:25) Prejudice, judgment and communication
(00:37:24) Adventure, community and connection
(00:40:59) The octopus
(00:46:50) Parallel play, play dynamics
(00:50:42) Navigating feelings and connections
(00:55:48) Chemistry, emotional connection and meaningful love
(01:00:31) Attraction and communicating interest

We'd love to connect with you!

Create your own FREE account on Peaches'nCream, the new social media app for your lifestyle!

INVITE CODE: 2PLUS2
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://web.peachesncream.app/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Join the Two Plus Two Podcast Group on Peaches'nCream to see our exclusive photos, post your comments, ask questions and connect with Zack and Josie.

Email us your thoughts, comments and ideas at:
⁠⁠hello@twoplustwopodcast.com
⁠
Want to be a guest? Start with our guest application and tell us all about yourselves!
https://twoplustwopodcast.com/guest/

Resources
Book Your Trip to Temptation or Desire
https://twoplustwopodcast.com/resources/
Rick’s Photography Business
​​https://www.instagram.com/polymathphoto
Gwen’s Coaching Business
https://theopendynamic.com/

Brad and Jenni return to join Zack and Josie for a spirited conversation about one of the most debated concepts in the lifestyle: fairness.
From honoring commitments and navigating separate play to managing insecurities and expectations, the couples explore how they define fairness within their own relationships—and whether it even belongs in the equation. Along the way, they tackle questions about attraction, opportunity, biology, and the unique challenges that arise when partners don't always experience the lifestyle in the same way.
As differing perspectives collide, the discussion becomes surprisingly candid, occasionally heated, and ultimately revealing. Rather than offering easy answers, the conversation highlights how every couple must find their own balance between fairness, freedom, and connection.
It's an honest look at the feelings, assumptions, and relationship dynamics that emerge when couples venture beyond conventional boundaries.

Support our podcast by booking your ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠travel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or purchasing your lifestyle products using our affiliate links. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twoplustwopodcast.com/resources/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

(00:00:00) Fairness is important to us
(00:01:47) Honoring commitments to one another
(00:04:32) Playing separately
(00:07:14) Playing with a unicorn vs play with female half of a couple
(00:09:54) Singles have to go home alone
(00:11:42) Men vs women…biology and other things
(00:15:28) Making the decision to have a separate play session or not 
(00:18:35) Arranging play dates for your partner
(00:26:14) Birthday play dates and sharing details of separate play
(00:32:28) Fairness isn’t a factor…or is it?
(00:38:15) Selecting play partners
(00:42:25) Giving and receiving as a couple is hot
(00:44:54) Fairness and pacing in play sessions

We'd love to connect with you!

Create your own FREE account on Peaches'nCream, the new social media app for your lifestyle!

INVITE CODE: 2PLUS2
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://web.peachesncream.app/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Join the Two Plus Two Podcast Group on Peaches'nCream to see our exclusive photos, post your comments, ask questions and connect with Zack and Josie.

Email us your thoughts, comments and ideas at:
⁠⁠hello@twoplustwopodcast.com
⁠
Want to be a guest? Start with our guest application and tell us all about yourselves!
https://twoplustwopodcast.com/guest/

Resources
Book Your Trip to Temptation or Desire
https://twoplustwopodcast.com/resources/

Suzie Webster Author Page
https://amzn.to/4rXPfOx