Metta Hour with Sharon Salzberg

For episode 284, devon and nico hase return to the Metta Hour to speak with Sharon about their new book, This Messy, Gorgeous Love: A Buddhist Guide to Lasting Partnership.
devon and nico serve as guiding teachers of the online dharma community Refuge of Belonging. They teach at the Insight Meditation Society, Spirit Rock, and other centers, offer online and in-person retreats, and speak with students in one-on-one sessions. Their first book How Not to Be a Hot Mess, came out in 2020 and their 2026 release, This Messy, Gorgeous Love, is now available in paperback and audiobook formats. This is devon and nico’s second appearance on the Metta Hour.
In this conversation, devon, nico and Sharon speak about:
The motivation for the new book
After the “happily ever after”
Approaching relationship as practice
The healing of deep listening
Common myths of relationships
Buddhist personality types
Dukkha (suffering) in a relationship
Impermanence informing connection
Forgiveness practice
Different conflict styles
Learning how to repair after rupture
Making room for play and joy
Supporting each other’s joy
devon & nico's three-year retreat
This episode closes with a guided appreciation practice led by devon. Learn more about devon and nico’s new book, This Messy, Gorgeous Love, and other offerings by visiting their website right here.
Join Nico and Sharon virtually on May 9th, 2026 for a daylong teaching The Fire That Sustains.
You can hear devon and nico’s first appearance on Ep. 142 of the Metta Hour Podcast.
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The Buddha taught a path of awakened living, but how does that manifest in today’s world of constant connectivity and widespread suffering?
How do we keep our hearts open without being defined or hardened by the pain that surrounds us, whether personal, collective, or historical? How do we navigate the paradox of holding both pain and joy, without mistaking suffering for punishment or personal failure? Can we infuse our compassion with wisdom and perspective to find the agency to take meaningful action in our communities?
In her new series, Engaged Compassion, Sharon delves into these questions and more, engaging in candid conversations with a diverse group of teachers, activists, and changemakers.
For the second episode in the series, Sharon speaks with Valarie Kaur, making her third appearance on the Metta Hour.
Valarie is a renowned social justice leader, lawyer, award-winning filmmaker, faith leader, mother, and best-selling author of See No Stranger, Sage Warrior, and World of Wonder. She leads the Revolutionary Love Project, building a movement to reclaim love as a force for justice. A daughter of Punjabi Sikh farmers in California, Valarie earned degrees at Stanford University, Harvard Divinity School, and Yale Law School and holds several honorary doctorates. She lives in LA in a multi-generational family.
Please note this conversation contains discussion of gun violence and ICE brutality.
In this conversation, Valarie and Sharon speak about:
Valarie’s Revolutionary Bus Tour
Embodying a world we want to live in
Engagement over Escapism
Wisdom from Angela Harrelson
Valerie’s recent time in Minneapolis
Redefining what it is to be a “neighbor”
Reclaiming the best of our ancestral wisdom
Shifting from either/our to both/and
Breathing to alchemize suffering
A future that leaves no one behind
Love as our birthright
How to love opponents without giving in
The importance of humanizing the enemy
The whole world is our family
We don’t go to battle alone
Community care versus self-care
Different forms of resistance
Mai Bhago and the 40 Liberated Ones
Additional Resources
The episode closes with a guided meditation led by Valarie.
Learn more about Valarie’s work right here. Here most recent book, Sage Warrior, is coming out in paperback on April 14th, 2026.
You can listen to Valarie’s first appearance on the Metta Hour in Episode 126, recorded in 2020 and her second appearance, Episode 218, recorded in 2023.
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For episode 282, Elisha Goldstein, PhD, returns to the Metta Hour to speak with Sharon about his new book, Tiny Shifts: How Emotional Health Transforms Stress, Relationships, and Longevity.
Elisha Goldstein is a clinical psychologist, bestselling author, and the co-founder of The Center for Mindful Living and Psychotherapy in Los Angeles. For over two decades, he has helped people break free from the conditioning that keeps them stuck in cycles of stress and overwhelm, uncovering how emotional health naturally transforms stress, relationships, and longevity. Elisha is the author of several books, including Uncovering Happiness, and The Now Effect, as well as hosting The Emotional Longevity Podcast.
In this conversation, Sharon and Elisha speak about:
Living in a culture of overwhelm
David Foster Wallace’s fish story
Insight alone doesn’t create change
Underlying conditioning of chronic stress
Realizing our natural intelligence
The challenge of practicing wisdom
How tiny shifts create lasting change
Interrupting stress patterns
Emotional regulation and impulse control
The 4R method: Recognize, Release, Refocus, Reinforce
How emotional health supports longevity
Listening to the body’s signals
Reclaiming our attention
This episode closes with a guided meditation led by Elisha.
Learn more about Elisha’s new book Tiny Shifts: How Emotional Health Transforms Stress, Relationships, and Longevity and his other offerings, by visiting his website right here. You can listen to Elisha’s first appearance on the Metta Hour from 2018 right here.
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The Buddha taught a path of awakened living, but how does that manifest in today’s world of constant connectivity and widespread suffering?
How do we keep our hearts open without being defined or hardened by the pain that surrounds us, whether personal, collective, or historical? How do we navigate the paradox of holding both pain and joy, without mistaking suffering for punishment or personal failure? Can we infuse our compassion with wisdom and perspective to find the agency to take meaningful action in our communities? In her new series, Engaged Compassion, Sharon delves into these questions and more, engaging in candid conversations with a diverse group of teachers, activists, and changemakers.
For the inaugural episode, Sharon’s speaks with longtime friend and colleague, Jerry Colonna—a renowned coach, writer, and speaker who specializes in leadership, business, and the practice of radical self-inquiry. Jerry is the Co-founder and CEO of Reboot.io, a company inspired by the belief that work need not destroy us. He is also the author of two books: "Reboot: Leadership and the Art of Growing Up" (2019) and "Reunion: Leadership and the Longing to Belong" (2023). For more than two decades, Jerry has championed the idea that work should be non-violent to the self, the community, and the planet. This marks his third appearance on the Metta Hour Podcast.
In this conversation, Sharon and Jerry speak about:
Suffering and the end of suffering
The Four Noble Truths
Sara Bareilles and Gavin Creel
Holding many things at once
Where resilience comes from
How generosity can appear in extreme loss
Jerry’s time in India after an earthquake
The dynamics of hope and fear
How we actually “get over loss”
Misunderstanding karma
Control veiled as “magical thinking”
How unworthiness leads to isolation
Compassion is not hierarchical
The Dalai Lama winning a Grammy
Suffering versus Extra Suffering
Facing our helplessness
The fixation with fixing things
Finding fuel for the long haul
Facing our nihilism
Additional Resources
You can learn more about Jerry’s work and his organization Reboot.io right here. This episode is also being release on the Reboot Podcast, which can be found right here. You can listen to Jerry’s first appearance on the Metta Hour in Episode 102, recorded in 2019 and his second appearance, Episode 229, recorded in 2023.
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For episode 280 of the Metta Hour, we are celebrating the 50th anniversary of the Insight Meditation Society, which opened doors on Valentine’s Day in 1976.
Today, IMS is one of the Western world’s oldest and most respected meditation retreat centers, dedicated to providing a spiritual refuge for all who seek freedom of mind and heart. The Retreat Center offers a range of silent meditation courses, ranging from a weekend to three months. IMS Online offers retreats, sanghas, dharma talks, courses, and other programming to support your practice from our virtual meditation hall. IMS also has two adjacent retreat facilities – the Retreat Center and the Forest Refuge – that are set among almost 400 secluded wooded acres in the quiet country of central Massachusetts.
In this episode, Sharon presents a special episode from the archives of IMS history featuring her teacher Dipa Ma. Originally recorded in October of 1984, when Dipa Ma was visiting IMS, this dharma talk was given as part of the 1984 three-month retreat. Through an interpreter, Dipa Ma shares the story of how we came to meditation following tremendous loss. She reflects on her early years of practice under the tutelage of Anagarika Munindra and how she gradually began teaching meditation. She also takes questions from the audience about her practice from the attending three-month retreatants.
Resources
A full transcript of this episode is available right here.
To learn more about the Insight Mediation Society, click here.
To learn more about Dipa Ma, click here.
To learn more about the Dharma Seed archive, click here.
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