Wisdom of Impermanence

Margaret sits down with Michael Todd Fink - licensed psychotherapist, mindfulness meditation teacher, host of the Kind Mind podcast, and co-founder of the folk rock group The Giving Tree Band - to discuss his beautiful new book of reflections and poetry, Losslessness: Reflections on Impermanence, Glimpses of Forever.
Todd shares the wisdom at the heart of his writing: that impermanence doesn't negate meaning - it undergirds it. Through the metaphor of waves rising and falling on the ocean, he explores how what falls away clarifies what abides, and how loss can orient us back to our true nature. Margaret and Todd also dive into his poem "Life is a Movie," examining how the challenges and "plot twists" of our lives might be embraced as part of a meaningful story rather than resisted as obstacles.
The conversation moves into Todd's clinical practice, where he discusses how creativity, ritual, and rites of passage help people navigate grief and transition. He shares the deeply personal story of how woodworking helped him heal after a painful loss, and how making small decisions through art can restore confidence and direction when we feel stuck. Drawing on his work with indigenous communities in New Mexico, Todd reflects on cultural humility and the many different ways of knowing beyond Western clinical research.
Margaret and Todd also explore the tension between attachment and fear, how our culture's compartmentalization of art, science, and spirituality limits us - and how integrating all three streams can open the door to transformation. Todd generously reads from his poem "The Root of Fear," offering an intimate look at his own lifelong relationship with anxiety and the practice of letting go.
Whether you're grieving a loss, facing a major life transition, or simply curious about how Buddhist wisdom intersects with modern psychology, this episode offers compassionate insight and practical wisdom for finding your center in a rapidly changing world.

Find his book:  "Losslessness: Reflections on Impermanence, Glimpses of Forever" (available on Amazon, michaeltoddfink.com, and Luna and Luz in Albuquerque)
Find Michael:

·       Website: michaeltoddfink.com
·       Podcast: The Kind Mind Podcast (available on podcast platforms and YouTube)
·       Psychology Today Blog Series: "The Circle of Compassion"
And do not forget:
·       Artist: Mary Drury (Dryad Expressions) created the cover art and offers prints

You know that moment at the amusement park - you've just stumbled off a roller coaster, heart pounding, and your friend turns to you with a huge grin and says, "Let's go again!" Sometimes you're right there with them. And sometimes... once was enough. In this episode, Margaret Meloni takes that familiar little moment and opens it up into something surprisingly profound: a meditation on samsara, the "wandering on" that the Buddha described - the wheel of birth, death, and rebirth kept spinning not by punishment or judgment, but by the sheer momentum of our own craving, aversion, and confusion.
At the heart of this episode is a story about a clever question and a compassionate correction. Margaret once asked a respected teacher: if rebirth means coming back for another ride, shouldn't we celebrate death and mourn birth? Shouldn't we flip the whole thing around? His answer - gentle, patient, and quietly devastating - reframes the entire spiritual path. We don't celebrate death, because we don't know where someone goes next. The ride doesn't stop just because the car has returned to the station. It stops only when the conditions that keep it running have been uprooted.
This isn't an episode about hating life or gritting your teeth until it's over. It's about something far more tender: learning to keep your eyes open while the ride is still in motion. To feel what there is to feel without contracting around it. To notice that the thrill of samsara always comes packaged with dread, that its pleasures always call for repetition - and that the "again" is itself the suffering.
Whether you're deep into Buddhist practice or simply curious about what it might mean to find ground beneath your feet that doesn't move, this episode offers a gentle invitation: not to escape the ride, but to use it. To let the craving, the fear, and the clinging weaken and thin - so that when the ride ends, perhaps nothing pulls you onto the next one.
Step off. Stand still. And listen.

Margaret sits down with Joshua Nathaniel Pritikin - a former software and statistics professional turned psychological counselor, and the author of Religion Unburdened by Belief: An Open Inquiry. Joshua's path took a bold turn when he left behind a career in tech to follow a deeper calling: understanding the human mind and helping others navigate mental health. Now an IFS (Internal Family Systems) Certified Practitioner, he brings a refreshingly grounded and open-ended approach to spirituality, one that invites curiosity instead of blind acceptance.
Together, Margaret and Joshua explore what it might mean to practice a "scientific religion" - not in the sense of dogma or rigid doctrine, but as a way to make religious and meditative experiences more reliable, repeatable, and honest. Joshua shares how his book builds on the work of James Carse, and how he aims to develop tools for spiritual growth that include real feedback, not just self-deception or comfortable habits. They dive into a simple yet powerful meditation adjustment: instead of brushing aside distractions, take a mental note, return to your focus, and later tend to the "parts" that surfaced. It's a small shift that can deepen both meditation and self-understanding.
The conversation also takes a fascinating turn as Joshua describes the use of serotonergic psychedelics in communal ceremonies, like those in the Santo Daime tradition. He explains how participants are asked to stay present with the group - singing hymns, keeping rhythm, and remaining aware - even as the substance pulls them inward. This practice of "firmness," he suggests, trains the same muscles we use in meditation: staying present, resisting distraction, and developing discipline that carries into daily life. It's a compelling look at how spiritual experiences can be observed, shared, and even measured in group settings.
Throughout the episode, Margaret and Joshua touch on the danger of inherited beliefs, the vital role of questioning, and why open inquiry matters now more than ever. Joshua offers a hopeful vision: that religious experiences can inspire empathy, compassion, and a deeper sense of connection to all beings. And for anyone curious about taking this work further, Joshua shares that he has room in his talk therapy practice - available via Zoom, with a sliding scale - through his website, unburdened.biz.
For more, check out this article: https://thegentlelaw.substack.com/p/what-is-the-goal-in-meditation
Tune in for a rich, thoughtful conversation about meditation, belief, and what it means to meet the unknown with both rigor and an open heart.

Drawing on an ancient story from the time of the Buddha - 500 monks who are tormented by tree spirits during a forest retreat - Margaret reveals a timeless lesson: the things that haunt us in our own forests often change when we change how we meet them. What begins as a tale of frightened monks becomes a powerful invitation to understand love not as something that happens to us, but as something we can intentionally cultivate, like a garden.
Margaret unpacks the practice of mettābhāvanā - the development of loving-kindness - walking listeners through the five classical stages: from offering goodwill to ourselves, to a beloved benefactor, to a neutral person, to a difficult person, and finally to all beings without exception. She illuminates the subtle "near enemies" that masquerade as love and compassion - attachment disguised as affection, pity disguised as care - and offers clear guidance for recognizing the counterfeit in our own hearts. Along the way, she introduces compassion as "metta with its sleeves rolled up," explores the transformative Tibetan practice of Tonglen, and touches on modern scientific research showing that these ancient practices genuinely rewire the brain and build emotional resilience.
Blending intimate storytelling with practical wisdom, this episode is both a teaching and an invitation. Margaret includes a guided meditation for listeners, addresses common obstacles like self-criticism, emotional numbness, and the fear of opening our hearts to a suffering world, and shares how to carry these practices off the cushion and into the messy reality of daily life. Whether you're new to meditation or a longtime practitioner, you'll come away with tools to meet your own haunted forest with a different heart - and a deeper sense of how the truth of impermanence can set us free.

Margaret Meloni opens her heart to share the raw, unvarnished story of her own confrontations with death - from her mother-in-law's quiet passing at 98 to the shattering week when both her mother and her husband Ed died just five days apart. With gentle honesty, Margaret recounts how these losses, along with her father's terminal cancer and the death of a beloved uncle, forced her to move beyond fear and avoidance into a place of acceptance. She invites listeners to consider a radical truth: that embracing impermanence isn't about being morbid, but about finding freedom from anxiety, stress, and despair.
Drawing on the Buddhist teachings that became her lifeline, Margaret explores how the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path can serve as a steady foundation when grief threatens to overwhelm. She reflects on the cultural pressure to "be fine" after three days of bereavement, the comfort of faith, and the unexpected grace of the people who show up when we need them most. This episode is not a prescriptive guide but a shared conversation about what it means to become death-ready, to let go of clinging, and to live ardently even as we know all things must pass.
Whether you are grieving a recent loss, preparing for one yet to come, or simply seeking a more grounded relationship with life's only certainty, this episode offers companionship and clarity. As Margaret says, "We cannot protect each other from death - but we can learn to walk beside it with courage, community, and a little faith." Tune in for a message that is both tender and transformative.
May you be well, may you be happy, and may you be free from suffering.