The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Mindfulness is everywhere now, which is kind of weird.

What started as a countercultural practice has become a productivity hack and a billion-dollar app ecosystem. On one level, it’s great that more people are meditating. But somewhere along the way, the whole thing got flattened. When mindfulness is mainly about optimizing your output, we’ve probably missed the point.

Today’s guest is Jon Kabat-Zinn, pioneer of the American mindfulness movement and author of the mega-bestseller Wherever You Go, There You Are. Jon’s work helped bring meditation into medicine, schools, sports, and everyday life. He’s also spent decades reminding people that mindfulness isn’t about escape, self-improvement, or becoming some perfectly serene version of yourself.

Sean and Jon talk about what mindfulness actually is, why being present is so damn hard, and what happens when industry turns meditation into another tool for self-optimization.

This episode originally aired in December of 2023.

Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling)

Guest: Jon Kabat-Zinn, author of Wherever You Go, There You Are: Mindfulness Meditation in Everyday Life.

We would love to hear from you. To tell us what you thought of this episode, email us at [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show.

And you can watch new episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube. New episodes drop every Monday and Friday.

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Sean talks to Atlantic writer Tyler Austin Harper about the killing of Alex Pretti in Minneapolis, and why liberals are missing the point about American gun culture and the right to bear arms. 

Beyond that, Tyler asks an important question: If you really believe we’re sliding toward authoritarianism, how can you argue that the public should disarm? 

Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling)

Guest: Tyler Austin Harper (@Tyler_A_Harper)

We would love to hear from you. To tell us what you thought of this episode, email us at [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show.

And you can watch new episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube. New episodes drop every Monday and Friday.

If you enjoy our reporting and want to hear more from Vox journalists, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/vox. Each month, our members get access to exclusive videos, livestreams, and chats with our newsroom.
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The Gray Area with Sean Illing is now twice a week!

Look for new episodes every Monday and Friday, here in your ears and at Youtube.com/vox for your eyes. 
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Games are fun. Aren’t they?

When we play games — board games, video games, any kind of game — something magical happens. Games allow us to explore, to create little worlds where we can be different versions of ourselves. But when we turn life into a game — where we have to get the best grade, or the most money, or the most “likes” — then games stop being fun. Why is that?

This week Sean speaks with philosopher C. Thi Nguyen about what a game really is, the difference between playing for enjoyment and playing to win, and why games lose their magic when the stakes become real.

Thi argues that the things we value in life are increasingly captured by grades and likes and downloads and step counts and a thousand other metrics that quietly rewrite what we want and what we think makes us happy.

Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling)

Guest: C. Thi Nguyen, author of The Score

We would love to hear from you. To tell us what you thought of this episode, email us at [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show.

And you can watch new episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube.
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Why do we love football so much? Why does this sport dominate American culture in a way nothing else can? Why does it feel essential even to people who barely like sports? And what does it say about us that we keep watching, even as the risks and contradictions become harder to ignore?

Today’s guest is Chuck Klosterman, cultural critic and bestselling author, whose new book Football tries to explain the game at the height of its power. Sean and Chuck talk about how football became the defining spectacle of modern America, why it’s easily the best television show we’ve ever seen, and why it presents a ton of moral dilemmas we can’t really solve. 

Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling)

Guest: Chuck Klosterman, author of Football

We would love to hear from you. To tell us what you thought of this episode, email us at [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show.And you can watch new episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube.
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